We're all on the journey.
October 15, 2022
Body Science: How Accurate Scientific Body-Type Assessment Empowers Holistic Health

Our bodies; for eons - we’ve been reminded to treat them like temples. Yet our view of that temple - can often be distorted, misconceived, and even downright inaccurate. Our Character is often said to define both who and what...

Our bodies; for eons - we’ve been reminded to treat them like temples. Yet our view of that temple - can often be distorted, misconceived, and even downright inaccurate.

Our Character is often said to define both who and what we are as human beings. And still, how we characterize ourselves, is generalized by unhealthy ideals guided by our generational opinions on body stereotyping.

-Normalized social stigmas frequently surface as dogmatic in their nature.

Today we discuss how to leverage these tools to live your healthiest and happiest lifestyle.

As the lead scientific researcher at Fellow One Research, Marc Nelson has pioneered Body Type Science since 2003 - As a result of his research, creating the only scientifically qualitative body type assessment standards.

Marc has spent most of his scientific career dismantling many of these socially and culturally accepted stereotypes of bodies; instead developing a more integrated approach to assess healthy structural body integrity.

Featured Guests:

Marc Nelson


JOIN US ON INSTAGRAM: @thelightinsidepodcast

SUBSCRIBE: pod.link/thelightinside

Credits: Music Score by Epidemic Sound

Executive Producer: Jeffrey Besecker

Mixing, Engineering, Production, and Mastering: Aloft Media Studio

Production Manager: Anna Getz

--- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/thelightinside/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/thelightinside/support


Marc Nelson

[00:00:00] Jeffrey Besecker: Mark leaning in today, I'd like to consider the unconscious patterns of belief that often guide the formation of what we've come to know as body dysmorphic disorder, as one considers how these patterns begin. Where are these ideas established and how do they continue to influence and inform our societally condition ideas of body norms?

[00:00:22] Marc Nelson: I think that your, that your point on the idea of the leaf is where it's really at, because that's really the issue right now is as a scientist, I function off evidence and facts and I believe in logic and reason and understanding why something is the way that it is, because of those evidence and facts and logic and, and reason and not just subjective, arbitrary, I look like a pair or an apple and that's that.

[00:00:52] And now, and now we're out on social media talking about all these arbitrary subjective, unscientific body types like the endomorph. Uh, Goor, mesomorph, the triangle body types, the KBI body types, uh, all these different body types that just have no basis whatsoever and logic and reason, in fact and actual evidence.

[00:01:16] And yet folks are using those to define their body and tell everyone else what their body. . And what it leads to is confusion, uh, depression, angst, uh, and that then leads to bullying and shaming and trolling and this downward spiral of negative human behavior because there's a complete lack of understanding of why your body is the way that it is, why it shaped the way that it is.

[00:01:48] Uh, and I, I our, the whole point of what we're doing with our body type science is to, to help people understand why their body looks the way that it does. Why are you dealing with cellulite in other forms of skinny fat where there should be muscle and muscle mass? When if you go and see your doctor and you have your annual physical done, what they're judging your body by is the standard scientific human body.

[00:02:17] Anatomy book body type one that you find in any scientific body type, or excuse me, in any scientific, uh, human body book. And we have to have a scientific standard. But tho those standards are not accurate. And you're being held to this standard even by your doctor that you, that there's, that there's no way that you can possibly live up to, um, and you're being held to that same standard out on social media, which again, there's no way that you can possibly live up to it.

[00:02:45] And it, it simply creates unhealth relative to physical, mental, and emotional, uh, wellbeing. So I'll sort of pause there. I'm happy to go more into biotype science in general. Uh, but that, that's sort of an overview of why we got into this and our, our goal in helping to define bio types in a scientific way.

[00:03:11] Jeffrey Besecker: That's a great starting point.

[00:03:13] So in many regards, we could view these standards as innately acceptable facts within the medical and healthcare communities. I find that interesting. Mark, as we consider this idea of medical norms, where might these principles have originated?

[00:03:30] Marc Nelson: So that is definitely a mess that we'll need to untangle here. So let's start with the mainstream science and medical doctor, body type standard so we can at least understand how doctors, uh, especially, uh, view and determine what a bio type is. So there's technically only one body type, uh, when you're coming from a mainstream science and medical doctor point of view.

[00:03:58] And that is the standard scientific human body anatomy book, bio type one that you find in any scientifically approved human body. Anatomy book. And again, when you go in and you see your doctor for a, for your, uh, regular checkup, that's the body type standard that you are being judged by. It's that if is that image in your mind eye that you can see where it's the human body with all the muscle and muscle mass fully developed, um, you're being held to that standard.

[00:04:28] But it is a scientific fact that any part of the human body can be underdeveloped to whatever degree. And so if you have a human body that I, in terms of your genetics, where you have underdeveloped muscle mass, what we're finding in terms of science and these terms are relatively new is there are body types that have skinny fat in place of where there should be muscle and muscle mass.

[00:04:56] And we know this from our science up on our website because we now have hundreds of scientific body type quizzes from real people, and they have, uh, answered questions to help us better understand were they born in a body, Type one, like mainstream science and medical doctors claim adamant. Everyone's born in a body type one.

[00:05:17] There's no question about that. The only reason that your body doesn't look like the body type one is because you're eating too many calories daily above your bmr. And that means excess fat, which is why you're overweight or obese. And as soon as you eat less calories, lose the weight, you're gonna look like a body type one.

[00:05:34] But we have the scientific data, the only biotype science data in the world that shows that there are people, millions upon millions of people. More than likely. Uh, our data is still young, so I can't say that we have that much data yet, but we do have the only data in our data shows that there are plenty of people born in the biotech, two, three, or four, who have, who have claimed adamantly that they were never a body type one, they were a bio type two, three, or four from day one.

[00:06:02] Because of their genetics, they had have still skinny fat on their body. Skinny fat being cellulite, thin fat. Loose skin, saggy skin, crepey skin and normal weight obesity. They have one or many of those types of skinny fat on their body. They have from day one, but they're being held to this standard by their doctors and really by everyone else, that they are a buy type one.

[00:06:28] And the only reason they don't look like a buy type one is cuz they're eating gly calories. So bio type, standard number one is the standard scientific human body anatomy book, bio type one, bio type Standard number two is the body mass index bmi. It was made the official standard, uh, in terms of, uh, weight and fat on your body cuz obesity is defined as how much fat you have on your body, not as being overweight.

[00:06:58] It's how much fat you have on your body. So the, the BMI is supposed to calculate fat versus muscle, but it does no such thing simply. Judges your weight and tells you if you're in this certain weight class and you are, uh, overweight or obese, you'll be in these certain columns. And if you're not, then you'll be in the minimal risk, yada yada.

[00:07:22] That's your actual bmi. But it's just not accurate because skinny fat is a very real thing. It's possible to be within your safe, be in my weight range and have normal weight obesity like me. I am in, I'm, I have been within my normal weight pretty much my entire life. There was a span there where I definitely was obese, but when I was younger, especially around eight 10 and into my teens, I was skinny fat.

[00:07:49] I was really thin, I was very active, but I had normal weight, obesity all over my body, and that's vital because normal weight, obesity carries the same general risks as obesity. So I was thin, I was well within my safe being my weight range. The doctors, that's all that they cared about was that I was Within my safe being my weight range. And so they didn't even question why I had skinny fat all over my body. Then we'll, I'll, I'll talk about that later, why that's important, but the second. Body type, standard BMI is not accurate because skinny fat is real. And it's also possible to have excess muscle on your body, which would put you into the overweight or obese columns, but you are most certainly not overweight or obese like Dwayne Johnson, the The Rock.

[00:08:36] That dude is all muscle. If you were. His bmi, he most likely is in the overweight or obese category of his bmi, but he most certainly is not either of those things. If the, the third standard is the basal metabolic rate. Bmr. It is the base number of calories daily that your body requires to function. And that is not accurate because again, skinny fat is very real.

[00:09:00] It is a scientific, uh, a scientifically accepted standard that one pound of muscle burns six calories daily, one pound of fat, skinny fat only burns 2, 2, 3 calories. So if you are like me and you have skinny fat on your body relative to where you should have muscle and muscle mass, you are well within your safe b my weight range.

[00:09:21] Then your standard calculated mifflin, the. G or Harris Band activity BMRs are not accurate cause they do not take into account skinny fat. So I, I'm sorry, I know that was a bit longwinded, but those are the three standards and why they are not accurate. So I will pause there. Is that making sense? Awesome.

[00:09:41] Jeffrey Besecker: I feel that gives us a more holistic view of where that health benefit truly is. I'm sure you're familiar with the work of Dr. William Sheldon in the 1940s. Yes, I am. For our audience, Dr. William Sheldon introduced the concept of body types or believed to be one of the for runners, introducing the concept of body types or somatotype as they were called.

[00:10:06] You know, Soma being related to the body. Since then, Nu Nutritionalists exercise physiologists and even doctors have used this to help design what they perceived as effective individualized fitness plans. I found it interesting that Dr. Sheldon was also a psychologist and a Nuis Methodist. Nuis Methodist being one who collects and studies coins based in how they are categorized . I thought that was an interesting angle that, you know, his whole premise is categorizing us somewhat, guiding how we view things. Yes. That psychological aspect was very interesting to me. He developed what was known as constitutional psychology, or a theory that studies the psychological aspect of human behavior as they're related to the morphology and physiology of the body.

[00:11:04] Mm-hmm. are adaptable changes essentially. Or what he is saying or determined by not our body composition, but by our, psychological and personality characteristics. I thought that was an interesting angle to look

[00:11:19] Marc Nelson: at. So he definitely opened up the idea of categorizing bodies cause that, Cause that's what we humans do.

[00:11:28] Yes. We seek to define and understand whatever it is about the world. If it's our body, if it's the external world, whatever it is, we seek to understand and define it. That's just a natural thing that we do. However, in terms of the Dr. William Sheldon, the Somatotypes, the endomorph, Ectomorph Mesomorph, um, were a first attempt at categorizing biotypes, but they were also thorough.

[00:11:57] Debunked. They are not based on any science. They are truly just arbitrary subjective shapes that they hung on. Because even to this day I hear people say, We believe the, the three bio science before we believe you're science. And when I tell them there's no such thing, there's three biotype science, it does not exist.

[00:12:18] You're essentially using arbitrary subjective shapes that are not based on any science whatsoever. They won't hear it because they've been, those biotypes have been around for so long. People last on to them because they were the only real body types. So the only perceived real body types. So you can't really blame people cuz they wanted to understand.

[00:12:39] But uh, again, they are totally unscientific and arbitrary and subjective. And it's one of the reasons why we started the biotech science was because I looked at those when I was dealing with all my issues. And I, cuz I, I wanted to understand why, What was my bio, Why is my bio so different than so many of my peers?

[00:13:00] Uh, and when I look at those bio types, it, I, I just couldn't find any rhyme or reason to, uh, what, why is one any different than the other. And so after recognizing that those body types have no real rhyme or reason, they're just arbitrary in subjective shapes, that's when I began to develop the logic and reason and the science using the evidence and facts that I knew relative to the four body types. .

[00:13:28] So, in terms of the four body types, I'm happy to go into those, um, definitions. Uh, but I feel like I should maybe pause here and see if there's, uh, if you have any thoughts on what I just said. Awesome.

[00:13:40] Jeffrey Besecker: I'd like to interject one antecedent here as we look at that study initiated by Sheldon. As one considers this study a foregone conclusion might have suggested that there may be some evidence that different physiques carry cultural stereotypes as defined by what we established in this study even going on within this study, to assert that some cultures are more prone, perhaps by their assertion to certain physiques, accordingly, it was suggested directly as a result of this study that endomorphs are more likely by their perception to be slow, sloppy, lazy.

[00:14:26] We're starting to define certain characteristic traits, assessing that not only to the personality makeup or se personality makeup. We're looking at a lot of different angles of personality There. And subjecting that to simply biased belief. You know, Mesomorphs in contrast, were typically stereotyped as popular and hardworking based on their body type.

[00:14:51] And whereas Ectomorphs were thought to be more often viewed as intelligent, yet somehow fearful just based on their body type. It's interesting to see where perhaps this created our inherently biased stereotypes, decades ago stereotypes we've held onto.

[00:15:10] Marc Nelson: Right, right. And that is, and you see it out on social media all the time, right?

[00:15:15] Um, and social media is a tough place because you have filters and Photoshop and ya y and so you don't really know what's what because folks just aren't being honest about their, their, um, body type. Uh, but yes, again, I, I, I, I find all that very interesting too because it's, Again, it, none of it's based on, on any science yet.

[00:15:35] Here we are developing these very strong, ingrained beliefs and we're setting stereotypes for folks about, uh, how we perceive their body relative to these arbitrary subjective shapes and who this person is relative to all this unfounded, baseless, unscientific nonsense. Um, that being said, it brought us to here and now, and so I don't want to just poo-poo the entire thing because I think that it does.

[00:16:11] I think that it, it has given us at least a general understanding of the fact that there are indeed different body. Right. And so we can look at different bio types and say, not everyone is a, a standard scientific human body. body type , one, like mainstream science and medical doctors adamantly claim. Go and and see your doctor and ask them, Am I a body type one doctor?

[00:16:33] And they have no other choice but to say yes. Cause that's the only standard that they recognize right now. And then when you ask them, Hey doctor, if I'm, if I am a one, why? When I am well within my safe b my weight range, do I not look like a one? Do I have cellulite and skinny fat all over my body? They have no answer for you because they don't recognize any other type standard, at least understanding that there is -

[00:16:59] without a doubt a hundred percent. It is a fact that there are different body types. It is why we developed our body type science because we wanted to understand why, why I, are there different body types and what is the scientific, where are the scientific evidence and facts that back that up. Which leads us to the four bio types and why we developed it.

[00:17:23] So we know that genetics are a key factor in how the human body is mapped and developed from day one. And so my body is really the key example in all this. Cuz when I, when I was young, when I was about eight years old, I was out on the soccer field playing shirts off soccer. Um, and I began to notice that my body was very different than all my peers, most of my peers, anyways, That their body did have all of the muscle and did look like the standard scientific human body.

[00:17:56] I may look biotech one in my body, most certainly did not. I was lacking muscle and muscle mass all over my body where there should be muscle and in place of it was fat. And at the time, skinny fat was not a term. It did not exist. It was not recognized by science. And so when I would go in and see my doctor again, all that, all that they cared about was that I was within my safe BMI weight range.

[00:18:17] And when I would ask them, Hey doctor, why do I have this fat over my body even though I'm skinny? I was never an obese child cause I was so active, but why do I have all this fat over my body where there should be muscle and muscle mass? And because I was eight, they said, Oh, don't worry, you'll, you'll grow into it.

[00:18:36] And when I hit puberty, all that happened was more fact group. And when I asked them, Again, where is all the muscle? They said, Oh, don't worry about it. You're just young. It will grow. And when I hit my teens, all that I did was grow more fat. Then again, I wasn't obese, I was not overweight. I was within my say bmi, but I had skinny fat all over my body where there should be muscle and muscle nuts.

[00:18:59] So I was normal weight obese pretty much my entire childhood up in, up into my twenties, and that directly affected my health. Not only did it affect my physical health because I was skinny, yet I was normal weight obese, which carries many of the same risks as being obese, but it directly affected my mental and emotional health as well.

[00:19:22] I was bullied daily, relentlessly at home, on the way to school, at school, on the way back from school at home again, because I had no muscle and muscle mass. I was weak. I was an easy target for bullying and. Has really not changed at all, uh, even now that I'm in my forties, because even though I put on a lot more muscle mass in the 25 years that I've been doing this, really, it's been longer than that, but, uh, that has been a main factor is, uh, mental and, and emotional health as well.

[00:19:55] So, uh, as I got into my teens and twenties, I started late. I started to weight lift. I started to pay attention to bio type ones, and I would mirror them and do their diets and exercise. And no matter what I did, I just couldn't put on muscle and muscle mass like they could on their body, which by that time into my early twenties is really when I began my research and that's when things really started.

[00:20:19] Uh, I opened up the actual business and when I was in 2003 and that's when the actual science really began. So, um, is that, is that making sense? Yes.

[00:20:30] Jeffrey Besecker: I'd like to interject; , simply - looking at how we, don't stigmatize the former data, you know, we each kind of grow and evolve through those actions. We start to form that basic understanding.

[00:20:44] Where do we take that then and evolve toward a more maybe aware, more effective understanding of that?

[00:20:52] Marc Nelson: so that is where the science comes in and that's where it's going to save us hopefully. Anyways, so we developed before body types out of all that because we needed a, a way to define each different body type.

[00:21:09] So the four biotypes are, are broken down into bio type one, which is the standard scientific human body anatomy book, bio type one with all vertebrae fully developed, we. We looked at this in terms of vertebrae and muscle and muscle mass in terms of the spine, because that's how the human body is structured.

[00:21:28] It's the scaffolding, the structure of, uh, of the human body. And, and it's a scientific fact that any part of the human body can be under developed to whatever, uh, degree. It's also a scientific fact that every ver bra houses a specific set of muscles and muscle mass. And if any of those vertu bra have underdeveloped muscle or muscle mass, it directly affects posture.

[00:21:53] It also directly affects metabolism, but it essentially directly affects the makeup structure and shape of your human body. And so a bio type one again is zero under developed vertebrae. A bio type two is one to eight under developed vertebrae with a, you know, a specific amount of under. Developed muscle and muscle mass.

[00:22:16] Bio type three is nine to 17, and the bio type four is 18 to 26. And we don't claim right now that those are set in concrete. We just know that there are 33 vertebrae. If you, if you break them down into the, into the known, um, vertebrae, relative to bones, it is, uh, seven cervical, 12 thoracic, five lumbar, one sacrum, and one coxic

[00:22:43] so there are 26 total, and that breaks down into the four biotypes that I just told you. And so it was coming to the understanding of, again, how do we categorize and, and, and break this down so that we. Have a way to say, you are this bio type, you are this bio. That being said, our intention was never to say a bio type one is better than a bio type two.

[00:23:07] A bio type two is better than a bio type three, yada, yada. That's, that 100% is not the, the intention of this whatsoever. It's simply a means of understanding your bio. So that, and being able to define it in a scientific way so that then you can come to accept, this is my genes, this is my genetics. I can't do anything about that right now.

[00:23:28] Even though we are developing ways that you can, uh, change your genetics, which is a, it's a scientific fact that you can definitely change your, uh, your DNA over time. Uh, but the first step in understanding your bio type is understanding it through the definitions that I just gave and then accepting it for what it's, it's acceptance of your body and, and understanding that that.

[00:23:56] Is what it is. You don't get upset because four plus four is equal to eight. You accept that as a fact because it simply is what it's so to accept your body for what it is. And then the next step is figuring out what the best diet, exercise, and lifestyle is for your specific body type so that you can live as healthy as possible relative to the short and long term and live a healthy, sustainable life.

[00:24:20] Excuse me. So, uh, is that making sense?

[00:24:23] Jeffrey Besecker: That perhaps suggesting how we form our own qualitative and quantitative lines of evaluation and discernment, simply allowing us to explore what might make for a different outcome that becomes more aligned with a healthy system of existence, a healthy method.

[00:24:44] To achieve longevity. Yes. A healthy interaction with our

[00:24:47] Marc Nelson: experience. Yes. And that is, it is, uh, so again, I go back out to social media because it's sort of taken over the planet and, uh, not so much in a good way right now because of that, we have these expectations that are placed on everyone that really are not realistic or achievable expectations for most people, which leads them to unhealthy diet, exercise, and lifestyle choices.

[00:25:17] Um, which then leads to obviously to unhealthy, uh, in terms of their physical, mental, and emotional well. So we very much encourage people to understand the science behind body type and diet, exercise, and lifestyle, so that they can make the best choices relative to their specific body type. Instead of following this nonsense out on social media and elsewhere.

[00:25:45] That tells them. Now here is the, the standard bio type that your body should look like. The only reason that you don't look like that is because you're eating too many calories daily. So stop eating so many calories and then you'll look like a bio type one. And that's simply not true. Um, and it's not. So, science is very clear now that the old model of weight loss where a calorie in and a calorie out is simply not accurate.

[00:26:11] It is not true whatsoever. A calorie is most certainly not a calorie. A McDonald's french fry is not the same as a piece of broccoli. It may taste better. But a piece of, of broccoli is superior in every way in terms of nutrients, calories, et cetera. What you put into your body matters. The quality of your food matters.

[00:26:35] If you're eating a bunch of junk fast and uh, and processed foods, then no matter how hard you diet, you likely are not going to see the, the weight loss results that you want because you're eating poor quality food. When I was growing up, we were a Sam's Club family, meaning that we basically lived off processed.

[00:26:58] Frozen food when we were at home. And then when we were out, we would live off fast food, junk food, and more processed food because the calorie and calorie out model was how things were. If you were to ask your doctor about food quality, they'd tell you it doesn't matter because it's all about calories.

[00:27:17] And calories are automatic. Cause the calorie is a calorie. So eat whatever you want so long as you're, you know, getting your calories daily. And that was that. But we now know that that's simply not true. That what you put into your body matters. Uh, and especially things like sugar, which is in pretty much everything.

[00:27:37] It's in all food products, it's everywhere. Um, and that's sort of another story. Food quality matters. So when it comes to losing weight, what you put into your body matters. Once you've lost that weight, recognizing what your body type is matters. Because if you're expecting to be a bio type one, when you lose that weight, you can go up on our website and you can look at many of our scientific weight loss folks who have lost the weight.

[00:28:05] Most recently was, um, Participant 1170. She did a great job. She lost 19 pounds. She was at the edge of her safe BMI when she started. She was within, uh, well within her safe BMI when she ended right at the mid-range. Yeah. She still had skinny fat all over her body and she expected, like her doctor told her and everyone else that once she lost all that weight, she was gonna look like a body type one and have all that muscle mass and look great and be able to go out in her, uh, kenie on the beach and look stellar.

[00:28:38] And when that didn't happen, if she had been up on social media, what would've happened? More than likely she would've been trolled and shame and said, You're not working hard enough. Uh, there's some reason or excuse why you don't look like a body type one, and it's your fault when it's not. It's just your genes.

[00:28:54] It's just your body type and it matters.

[00:28:56] Jeffrey Besecker: Mark, you mentioned how that food quality matters isn't the influence of many of those additives, preservatives. And food byproducts responsible for driving up those spikes in calorie count?

[00:29:10] Marc Nelson: I do think so, yes. Um, and not just the, the calories that come from all that nonsense that is put into foods, but how it, how it damages the body, how it damages the, the, um, liver, liver and kidneys.

[00:29:25] Probably all of the, all of the major organs in some way, but especially the liver and kidneys. Cause they are what is processing all that nonsense. And so I, I do think that, that, that definitely plays a role in things because. Uh, your, your body is always working hard to keep itself clean and the more nonsense that, that you put into it, uh, and we, that's just the nonsense in terms of food.

[00:29:49] Uh, we have poisoned our environment. We've poisoned our water sources, so our, our body is under this immense stress to keep itself clean and it's not getting the nutrients either. So yes, I definitely think that, that the quality of the food and the additives and such that are in it are playing a negative role in things as well.

[00:30:13] In that regard,

[00:30:14] Jeffrey Besecker: our body doesn't even acknowledge that as a source for food or fuel. Sure. In that regard, you know, our body is programmed to somewhat reject it and dump it somewhere. It's simply a byproduct.

[00:30:30] Marc Nelson: Right. It is, and again, we can look at especially the skyrocketing cases of cancer, skyrocketing cases of obesity, the obesity epidemic globally.

[00:30:43] And these things are, I am the, the living example of the obesity of it, the obesity epidemic, i I dealing with normal weight, obesity my entire life. And then there was a span in my thirties where I reached almost 300 pounds. And it wasn't from a lack of diet, from a lack of exercise and a lack of, uh, positive lifestyle choices.

[00:31:05] It was simply because of my body. And so globally we see this health crisis. And again, cancer is a huge problem and cancer all over the, the, the body. And it's directly tied into the, the nonsense that we're exposing our, our body type. Our, our body too. Excuse me. So most cancer, I wanna say 90% plus, is diet, exercise, and lifestyle.

[00:31:30] It's environmental exposure. Less than 10% of cancer is genetics. And that's an important fact to understand because. If we were just to clean up our diet, exercise, and lifestyle and our environment, what we put into our body, the quality of our food, we would see a drastic change in the global health crisis in a positive way globally in term and the, especially the obesity epidemic.

[00:31:59] And so I don't think that the solution to our problem is necessarily a difficult one. It's just in this country we value, quote, freedom so much that I'll eat whatever I want and the lobby is up on Capitol Hill. Make sure that they are food products and whatever other products, even if it's not food products.

[00:32:19] I mean, if the containers that you store food in are leaching chemicals, uh, the beauty products that so many people use are your skin absorbs everything. So it's this national crisis that we're dealing with that people don't want to hear about because it's freedom. I'll buy whatever I want and. If we understood our body better, how it absorbs things, how these products and chemicals affect it, we would make different choices.

[00:32:50] So as much as I would blame the companies for this problem, I also blame the average consumer because it's, it is freedom and it's your freedom to choose and buy what you want, but you have to make better choices in, in what you choose to buy. Uh, so I, I think that it's, that it falls on the, the, the shoulders of the average person and what they're buying even more than it does companies, because if they weren't buying those products, then the companies wouldn't have products to sell.

[00:33:19] The companies wouldn't be a problem, and people would then look to other companies who were actually selling high quality, environmentally friendly and, uh, sustainable products, uh, as a, as a, as a whole.

[00:33:33] Jeffrey Besecker: In that regard, as we are engaging those eating patterns, those habits of, going through with the foods that are high in additives, the, what you term the nonsense, isn't there a sort of residual effect in how that lingers in our body?

[00:33:50] What might be the necessary timeframe or the potential timeframe to engage, cleansing those and resetting some of those habits and patterns?

[00:33:59] Marc Nelson: So it would de de depend on the chemicals. Some are easier to flush out of the body, and I say, uh, others not so much. So what we are now seeing is these forever plastic chemicals, um, that.

[00:34:17] Literally don't break down in the environment and they're now being found in, uh, the human lung, the, in the, in the bloodstream and how long it takes those to actually exit. The body is unknown right now, but it's probably a long time.

[00:34:35] Jeffrey Besecker: We think about that in our environment alone. We can see when we're throwing out plastic waste, not to necessarily beat the environmental drum, but we can witness how long it takes a plastic bottle, if ever.

[00:34:49] You know, it's, it's there and we find it decades later. Yeah. We're putting that kind of stuff into our

[00:34:56] Marc Nelson: bodies. Right, and that's, it is out in the open sun and the open ocean where, you know, it's harsh. Those plastics are not. Broken down at the rate that, and even when they are at least microplastics, which are raining down across the world just from the, the water cycle process.

[00:35:18] And so it is, it is a gigantic concern. Uh, we, you know, there's the, the plastic garbage pile out in the Pacific and there's one in the Atlantic as well, but they're like the size of Texas and folks aren't giving enough credence to this. And so the first step would be to make products that are, that, that breakdown in the environment without causing all this nonsense, which they are working on, which is good, but.

[00:35:47] In terms of inside the, the, the human body, it's really no different. We need non-toxic things that, uh, if they were to enter the human body, they would simply be broken down, you know, without any harm and expelled by the, by the, uh, by the body. Um, I have done many cleanses over the years, and in terms of cleanses, there's a lot of nonsense out there.

[00:36:12] Just a lot of nonsense products. The best way to cleanse your body is to drink clean water daily, lots of clean water daily. There's no better way to cleanse your body. You can do the, again, there's herbs, there's lemon and olive oil, there's all these fanciful cleanse ideas out there, and those may have some impact, but the best way to cleanse your body is to drink clean water.

[00:36:39] And the more. Clean water that you drink over time, be cleaner. That your, that your body is then the key is figuring out the products that you buy and making sure that there is clean and is safe for you and the environment as possible. And I, I may sound like I'm a left leaning liberal, but I'm actually aist cause I don't, I believe in balance and I believe in moderation.

[00:37:05] Um, but I also. Believe in the science. And I think that NASA has done a spectacular job, uh, of really showing us the climate change science, just as I believe that there are many other scientific organizations out there that had done an excellent job of showing us the planet as a whole and the dire shape that it is in, in terms of how we have mistreated the environment.

[00:37:29] So just as I'm a big fan of the environment within our human body and making sure that things like our gut flora are healthy and in balance cuz the gut flora is directly connected to your immune system, to your brain, to your body as a whole and the health of your body, the gut flora, quote unquote, of the planet, the Amazon Forest, the flora worldwide, all of.

[00:37:54] It plays into the harmony and health of the planet, and it's all symbiotic. And the, the more that we get everything cleaned up externally and internally, the healthier that we are as an individual, as a species and the healthier that the planet is. And to your point, at the start of this podcast, the planet is going to be fine one way or the other.

[00:38:17] It's gonna live on, it's the human species that may not make it. If we don't clean things up and do it rapidly,

[00:38:23] Jeffrey Besecker: know, we look at those ideas of forming some of those rather than just leaning into what we deem observable phenomena. seeing sometime can be believing. And then sometimes what we see causes a disbelief.

[00:38:41] I'm just gonna leave that out there. What we simply can form as a pattern and notice with regularity very often becomes telling.

[00:38:51] Marc Nelson: So I, I was reading an article the other day, uh, sci Scientifically, it's, it's important to be careful about, um, causation, uh, and correlation. Just because something seems to cause something doesn't necessarily mean that it correlates to something else.

[00:39:10] Mm-hmm. , on the other hand, there's strong evidence that that has tendency to be true a lot of the time as well. So it is about really looking at the scientific data carefully and closely, and, uh, understanding that the science is ever evolving. We humans and our human science is very young. Very young. We don't know much about anything we know less than, than of what is in our oceans.

[00:39:39] Right? Right. We know more about what's on the surface of the plant of Mars than we do what's at the bottom of our own oceans. And so our lack of understanding of who we are and what this planet is, is very real. And yet, if you were to ask the, the average human being, how smart is, is, is the, is the human species.

[00:40:01] We're the smartest. The smartest, Right? We we're better than everyone. We're better than average species on the planet. And the fact of the matter is we just don't know. And so our science is, is very young and it's important that we understand that that, and that. We respect the fact that science is ever evolving, That as new data and evidence and facts roll in that we are open-minded and we are open to changing our mind relative to those new facts and evidence and such.

[00:40:33] So it's not, it's, it's not falling into this concrete belief that so many scientists, um, get wrong. And that is, again, we know everything about everything. There's really nothing that we don't know. And so it, it just sort of is what it is. And I, I caution against falling into that, uh, erroneous mindset because I am a big believer that we just don't know.

[00:41:07] We just don't know so many things. And following the science and the new evidence and data and such is really where

[00:41:13] Jeffrey Besecker: it's at. Sometimes we just have to dive a little deeper to find something new.

[00:41:18] Marc Nelson: Amen. .

[00:41:21] Jeffrey Besecker: Sometimes the simplest of truths lead us to that discovery. . We kind of skirted, sidestep that notion of skinny fat.

[00:41:34] Mark. Let's look a little bit deeper at the origins and understandings of what exactly that skinny fat is and how that affects our body type and our experience with our health.

[00:41:46] Marc Nelson: So skinny fat again, is a relatively new term. It's been around for about a decade and obviously skinny fat's always been here with us in terms of of the human body, but we didn't really understand it prior because again, every human body is a body type one from the mainstream science and medical doctor point of view.

[00:42:03] So skinny fat is, it's only there on your body cuz you're eating too many calories. Yet science had to start recognizing it as something different than just excess calorie intake. When people like me started to get within their safe BMI weight range were or were already there, and yet they still had normal weight to obesity in other form to skinny fat on their body, well within their safe bmi.

[00:42:27] So what is skinny fat? What is cellulite? It's basically a type of fat tissue that exists under the skin. Uh, and again, if you look at so many of the examples that we have up on our website in terms of our scientific bio quiz, you'll see that there are people like, um, Participant 1170 who is in her early twenties.

[00:42:51] She is now at the mid-range of her safe BMI weight range, and yet she still has skinny fat over her body. And it's obvious that where that skinny fat is, she's lacking muscle and, and muscle mess. And once she actually got down within her safe BMI weight range, she was shocked to see that, Wow, you know, it, it really is true and I I am missing muscle mass.

[00:43:13] And her first response was, Well, I must have lost that muscle mass when I was losing. But that's not how the human body works. It's not how weight loss works. If you're doing it safely, your body does not consume muscle and muscle mass. If you are safely losing weight, if you are not safely losing weight, if you're starving your, your, your body, then your body is left with no other choice but to consume muscle and muscle mass to survive.

[00:43:43] But in, in her case, all of the scientific data is up On her, uh, scientific quiz profile page, she lost weight safely. She was at a 500 daily calorie deficit. She was doing her exercise. She was eating a healthy diet. And you can see we have her before quiz and her after quiz. You can see how she greatly improved her diet, her food intake, her quality food intake, and yet again, when she was done losing weight, she was, uh, at her mid-range bmi.

[00:44:12] Yet she still had skinny fat over her body. And that skinny fat, again, is in place of the muscle and muscle mass, and it's basically just a type of fat that exists under the skin. And once you have that fat, once those fat cells develop, whether it's from genetics from day one or it's simply over time and probably still your genetics, but it develops over time, it's very difficult to get rid of that skinny fat in whatever format it is.

[00:44:43] Um, and so essentially, to answer your question, skinny fat is a type of fat cell that it, that, that exists under the skin layer that offers some sort of, for many people, un aesthetically pleasing view of, of, of the human body. Because if we think about a body type one, and, yeah. How relatively rare it is.

[00:45:10] But the few people out there, we have a, a section on our website, uh, that is celebrity body types. And we do that not because we're glorifying celebrities, but because people identify with celebrities and they can better understand body type relative to their favor as a celebrity. But you can see that there's somebody like a, uh, Giselle Bundchen or a Jada Pink and Smith who both have had children.

[00:45:37] They're in their forties, uh, one's in their fifties now, and they both are 100% by type one. So you can go up and you can see their actual images, you can see that they don't have any cellulite anywhere. They look just like the body type one. And then you go look at other people like the Kardashian sisters and all, with the exception of Kindle Jenner, all the rest have ha have had children, and they have what we have labeled the Kardashian Jenner gene or the Jenner Kardashian gene, which.

[00:46:07] Likely they are lacking development in terms of their sacrum, vertebrae, which, you know, Kim Kardashian is famous for her, uh, her, uh, ous, voluptuous, excuse me, posterior, but it ones in the family. It does. And so, and it, it seems to be especially true for any of these sisters who have given birth because Kendall, Kendall Jenner is the only one who has not given birth.

[00:46:33] And she's the only one who technically right now still looks like a, body type one, even though that there is definitely debatable muscle mass, uh, a lack of it in terms of her sac and vertebrae. But my point is, is that skinny fat is genetics. It runs in families, uh, and how much is relative to your family and your genetics.

[00:46:59] Uh, but it essentially, it's just a lack of muscle mess. It's, and it. It, uh, manifests in terms of types of fat cells under the skin, and the more genetically prone that you are to it, the more that you have. And I'll, I'll say this too.

[00:47:17] We were just looking at a recent social media post from, uh, what was her name? Uh, uh, Layla Ponds. And she, uh, she posted several posts and she was totally candid. She stopped using filters and Photoshop and she showed the cellulite on, on her body. And we commend her for that because again, she, she is influencing millions upon millions of people.

[00:47:44] And instead of using filters and Photoshop to make her body look perfect, she's showing the real her and she's giving. All other people, real people in the world, a real sense of her body and how genetics affect your body. And so people, again, the, the point of our body type is, is to come to an, an acceptance of your actual body type your genetics so that you can find the best diet, exercising lifestyle forward.

[00:48:17] And what,

[00:48:18] Jeffrey Besecker: lean into that idea of what we've been kind of conditioned to believe as dieting, you know, very often as mirrored in that act where we have been somewhat guided by this notion that we're restricting our calorie intake versus, what we might deem as dieting, as simply being mindful of the types of food we're in taking.

[00:48:41] Marc Nelson: Well said. So we. In terms of short term acute dieting, weight loss, a calorie deficit works well, It is. Science shows that a 500 daily calorie deficit under BMR works well in the short term, but this is relative to eating a healthy diet. If you think that you can just go out and eat a bunch of fast food on a 500 calorie daily deficit, you're not likely going to lose the weight that you want because you're not giving your body the nutrients that that, that it needs yet.

[00:49:17] You are de, de denying it the calories that, that it needs daily, and it's just not going to work. It's not, you're going to find that you have to eat more because you're eating low quality food that doesn't have the nutrients that your body needs, which is going. Uh, galvanize your food cravings and you're going to have a, a tough time staying under that 500 calorie deficit that is in the short term.

[00:49:46] Once you have lost the weight and you're down into your safe BMI weight range, you need to get your calories back up to a safe, normal level daily. Cause it's, it's not safe to de deny your body those calories on, on a regular basis. It's a bad habit to get your body into. It's a bad habit to get yourself into mentally and emotionally.

[00:50:09] It's just not the way to lose weight. Again, it's a short term thing. Starving the, the body is just a poor weight loss strategy. That being said, in the short term, and really in the long term, the diet that we, that we recommend and we have a full list of diets up on our website, we do not necessarily push this diet, uh, Albeit it is a very good diet because it's backed by a lot of really good science.

[00:50:38] We know that there are five blue zones globally. The diet that we scientifically push is the Blue Zone Mediterranean Diet, so it's across between the Blue Zones and the Mediterranean Diet, which has a lot of really good science that backs it up, actually backs up both of it, the Blue Zones and the Mediterranean Diet.

[00:51:00] But the, the Blue Zones and the, the short of the long is, is that there are these five region. Globally, uh, in Sar Sarnia in, uh, uh, Okinawa, in Costa Rica in California, and there's gonna be one that I'll forget, but they are basically these places globally where people live into their hundreds and they do it in a healthy way.

[00:51:23] They're not popping a bunch of apathic pills and struggling to get through their seventies and and eighties in pain. And, you know, with all these health issues, they live a healthy, normal life into their hundreds because of their buy type, their diet, their exercise, and their lifestyle. And so the Blue Zone Meran diet, you can learn more about up on our website, but it is the diet that we think is the best in terms of the science that is known right now.

[00:51:50] But again, if you go and, and look at our scientific weight loss program, we have a full list of diets. We have a full list of exercise. Um, because we don't, we see the human body and each individual as being unique. And so what. Diet may work for this person, may not work as well for this other person, yada yada.

[00:52:11] So please go and check out under our scientific weight loss program the full list of diets that, that, that we have, and we explain them all, uh, at least, uh, onar, carnivore, vegetarian, vegan, um, low carb, low fat. We explain all those. And then if you're really interested in following a diet like Adkins or any of the food plans out there like Weight Watchers, that's fine too.

[00:52:36] Again, it's really about eating health, healthy food quality, healthy food daily, losing the, the actual weight at a 500 calorie deficit and then getting your calories back up to normal and continuing to eat healthy whole foods.

[00:52:52] Jeffrey Besecker: I think it's interesting to look at what we deem those Mediterranean diets.

[00:52:57] And how so many of them are so focused on high density nutrient rich foods, many of which are plant based, whole plant based, rather than some of the processed, more manipulated plant-based foods. I think that in and of itself can sometimes potentially become a slippery slope.

[00:53:20] Marc Nelson: Oh, amen. And thank you for bringing up the processed plant-based foods.

[00:53:25] So we have these, what are the, uh, the, uh, incredible burger or whatever they're called? Um, I'm gonna forget what the name is. Um, but these are heavily processed food products, and we're trying to say that they're healthy because they're plant based. But let's be honest, these are super heavily processed foods that are high in sodium.

[00:53:47] They're high in additives. And from my point of view, I would rather eat. Grass fed, uh, organic beef than I would many of these highly processed planted. And so I think that we need to be careful about glorifying plant based if it's highly processed, because all the science shows that anything that is highly processed, be it animal or plant based, it is not a good thing for the, for the human body.

[00:54:20] And I'm probably going to get a lot of pushback. ,

[00:54:23] Jeffrey Besecker: we're essentially taking the life out of things, if we're feeding life to ourselves. Yes, we're bringing life to ourselves. If we strangle the life out of everything, we're strangling the life out of ourselves. You know, that's not to jump on the bandwagon.

[00:54:37] That's just simple, observable

[00:54:40] Marc Nelson: fact. And there's a lot of good science that backs that up. It really does that, that again, even if, if it's plant, plant based, if it's heavily processed, it just, it just doesn't do well in, in the body. And, and as you just said, it's really about living things. Whether that living thing is a plant or whether that living thing is an animal, uh, or an animal byproduct.

[00:55:05] Um, it's one of the reasons why the blue zone Mediterranean diet is such a great diet, cuz a a, as you said, it is heavily, heavily vegetarian and focused, but it doesn't cut out meat products, it doesn't cut out seafood products. It just limits them. And it, it. It focuses on moderation. Moderation is much different from the blue zone Mediterranean point of view than the standard western diet because moderation in the standard Western diet would be like, I only eat two hamburgers daily instead of three.

[00:55:36] Whereas with

[00:55:40] blue zone diet, it's like, you should really only one hamburger a week, maybe two. Right? So, and that will be a tough thing for a lot of people to swallow, especially literally ,

[00:55:51] Jeffrey Besecker: literally .

[00:55:53] Marc Nelson: But that's, that's really where it's at. And this, this isn't just about human health, it's also about, uh, sustainability of the planet in general.

[00:56:03] So right now, the amount of red meat that, that, that the average. American consumes is a big part. It, it plays a big part in the deforest, the deforestation of the Amazon and other parts of, of the world so that we can make that meat so that we can give it to the average American consumer. So it's not, it's not just about the health of our body internally, it's about the health of the planet once again, because those things, they go hand in, in, in hand.

[00:56:38] So we are not saying you can't eat any red meat whatsoever, and that's gonna piss off the vegans and, and vegetarians. But I was a vegan, I was vegetarian for a while, and my body just did not function well, especially as, as a vegan, and I don't wanna hear it from any vegans. I tried every vegan recipe I tried and.

[00:57:02] I did it, I did that in my body. I felt awful. It just did not work for my body. And when I started to re incorporate at least a little bit of meat, whether it was chicken or red meat, I felt so much better. And I was so much healthier. And so, again, if you are vegan and that works well for you, good for you, couldn't be more happy for you.

[00:57:24] But this idea that, uh, we are gonna go and push this on, on everyone else because we want to save the planet. Well, the evidence shows that a little bit of red meat, a little bit of seafood, a little bit of chicken is actually good for the human body and in moderation is where things really are. So that's where we stick at.

[00:57:43] Again, it's why we look at the Blue Zone Mediterranean Diet. It's such an outstanding diet. Uh, but at at the same time, please go and look at all the diets on our scientific. Uh, scientific weight loss page because we're open to really any diet so long as it, as you said, is healthy Whole foods, uh, that nourish the human

[00:58:03] Jeffrey Besecker: body.

[00:58:04] Yeah, there again, I think it's essential we look at the characteristics of what those animal products are being fed. are they also being given a holistically healthy diet? You know, are they being fed additives and preservatives

[00:58:20] Marc Nelson: then,

[00:58:21] And that's why I'm willing to spend more money on those products.

[00:58:25] And so we, we hear the, all the jokes about say Whole Foods and its whole paycheck and how expensive everything is . And there is definitely truth in that. But if you learn to shop at places like Trader Joe's, the prices at Trader Joe's relative to organic grass fed meat are superior to the prices at Whole Foods.

[00:58:49] I can get a pound of, of organic grass fed red meat at Trader Joe's for $2 less than I can add Whole Foods cause it, How

[00:59:01] Jeffrey Besecker: many hundreds of thousands of dollars are spent on heart bypass or heart transplant surgery? Well said. Right? You paid forward or paying it at the end. Right.

[00:59:18] Marc Nelson: Spectacular point because that's really. . If, if we were really focused on health, we would be taxing all of the products that are destroying human health. Mm-hmm. , we would be taxing all of the meat products that are, have a bunch of chemicals and byproducts and they don't treat the animals well. And we would be giving tax breaks to all the products where it's organic and it's green and it's, uh, and it's grass fed and it's, and it's these really healthy products.

[00:59:50] And the, the same is true down through, uh, sugar products. All this sugary food. Like you see all these TV commercials for Kit Cat and all these just awful products, which I've eaten them because they taste delicious, but there is zero health benefit from them. They are destroying human health and what we should be doing.

[01:00:12] As you're right is we should be taxing those. There should be a healthcare tax on any products that we know destroy human health so that we're not saying you can't buy these products, but if you go and you buy a Kit Kat, or you go and you buy these heavily processed meat products or heavily processed plant products, you're already paying for your healthcare, you're paying it forward.

[01:00:33] At the moment that you buy that product, you're paying the actual health insurance for it so that as you gradually destroy your health eating such nonsense, eventually when you get to that point where you have heart failure and you need a heart bypass, you've already paid for that health insurance instead of this broken system that we have right now.

[01:00:54] I eat super healthy. I pay the extra money to to, to buy these super healthy food, whether it's plant based or meat based. And yet I'm paying these exorbitant healthcare premiums as well because right now we have this super broken system where we don't care about the health of the food that we're putting into our bodies.

[01:01:14] Companies are not held responsible for the garbage that they are putting out into the world and selling two folks because they have these deep pockets and they're up on Capitol Hill lobbying all of our politicians saying, We don't wanna pay taxes on all this, yada, yada, yada. When that's how we fix this.

[01:01:32] We fix our broken healthcare system by taxing the foods that are damaging human health, that we have the science, we know that sugar damages human health, yet it is in literally everything it is. Darn near every food product, even organic food products. If you go into Trader Joe's and you're thinking, I'm gonna eat healthy, I'm gonna buy these Trader Joe's food products that are organic, so many of them are still processed.

[01:02:03] They still are loaded with, with salt and sugar and a bunch of nonsense, even though they're quote unquote organic. So holding companies accountable for the garbage that they're selling people and educating people in terms of what they are buying and putting a tax, a healthcare tax on those garbage foods so that we are being proactive, We are paying it forward, as you said, and we're not telling people that you can't buy whatever product that that you want.

[01:02:33] We're simply saying, if you're gonna buy that garbage and you're going to ruin your health over time, You're already paying that healthcare insurance, that healthcare tax, so that when you get to that point where you have to have a heart bypass or deal with cancer or whatever it is that has caused, uh, the unhealth in your body, you have already paid it at that point.

[01:02:56] Jeffrey Besecker: We get into a lot of epistemic reasoning and what's known as integrative complexity as we look at all of those different layers, how people perceive that. So often we deem some of those things as common sense, yet they're not so commonly held

[01:03:13] I'm gonna leave it at that because I don't feel we need to dance any further into that debate today and just let it be up for others to decide. Simply when I look at it from my own perspective, nature kind of designed. What we were meant to put in our bodies. Nature guides us very intuitively from my perspective towards those things.

[01:03:38] How we muddy that up all comes down to our humanness.

[01:03:44] Marc Nelson: It does, and it, it, it's really about our, gluttony. Our, we love sugar. I love sugar. When I was a kid, I love sugar, right? So, so when I was a kid, I literally would, would spend all of my allowance money by going down to the local store and buying sugar.

[01:04:10] Uh, and it wasn't until really in my thirties when I realized how damaging sugar was, and that was simply, much of that was because I was so uneducated about sugar. So in the late sixties, I believe it was, the sugar industry actually did research on its own product and found that it was actually the cause of obesity, of, of fat and fatty livers.

[01:04:33] And it was, it was the actual problem. And, uh, by the seventies they were trying to, uh, you know, do PR control and, uh, salvage their industry. So they blended on saturated fat. And that's how we came to this low fat nonsense, which is leading to Alzheimer's and all kinds of mental issues because fat is vital to the human body.

[01:04:57] Vital. It's vital to the brain. It's fat is not second,

[01:05:01] Jeffrey Besecker: second or third maybe to water. Would you esteem?

[01:05:05] Marc Nelson: Amen. It is, that is how important fat is to the human body and good fat. Not hydrogenated fat, not excess saturated fat. Good fat like olive oil, like flax oil, Good fat is vital to the health of the human body.

[01:05:21] And yet by the late seventies, we were on these low fat kicks and everyone was taking that outta their diet. And then we had this, uh, burgeoning of, uh, Alzheimer's and all these other mental health issues because of the lack of fat in our diets. And there are these strong correlations scientifically now to all of this.

[01:05:44] Um, so it's not. Sugar is the problem and it really is. Uh, and they've known that now for 50 years. And from my point of view, it, how is it any different than the smoking industry covering up how dangerous smoking is and selling it to kids? How is any different than what the sugar industry did 50 years ago, covering up their own research and blaming on something else in terms of fat?

[01:06:09] How are they not liable and fully responsible for the health crisis right now? And yet nothing is being done about that. Sugar is still readily present in pretty much all food products, even organic food products, cane sugar, organic cane sugar. When sugar is sugar, I don't care how organic it is. Yes, it matters if it's refined, but even then sugar is sugar and the science backs that up, that even healthy honey, what is mostly what?

[01:06:39] Um, what is it? Fruit toast or. Glucose. Sugar is sugar, and you have to be careful with it. You have to eat it in moderation and moderation is seven tablespoons a day for men, I believe. And I wanna say it's like six or five for, for, uh, women. And if you were to look at your sugar intake, if the average person were to look at their average sugar intake daily, it's more like 22 table speeds, 28 tables.

[01:07:05] Jeffrey Besecker: Also to our unknowing, there's a lot of sugar additive there that's not openly present in packaging or even to our

[01:07:13] Marc Nelson: knowledge. Amen. And so it's one more thing where we, we really have to, we really have to hold companies accountable for the, the ingredients, the real true ingredients in their products and understanding.

[01:07:29] What each of those actual ingredients means in terms of the health of the human body. And sugar is a big one. E even with all the scientific evidence that we have right now, um, it's still so prevalent cuz most people just don't realize how damaging it's, And the same could probably be said with sodium, even though in all honesty, I was on a low sodium diet for a long time.

[01:07:52] I was doing less than a 1500 milligrams, probably around a thousand or less. And my heart rate got so low that I had to increase my sodium. So I think that sodium is, uh, is also one of those things where it, it needs to be better understood and how much we actually need. Probably somewhere between 1,520 400 milligrams a day is probably, you know, right in that sweet spot.

[01:08:17] But we'll see as, as the science grows. But most certainly, sugar has got to be brought down in the average, especially, um, uh, American diet. So yeah.

[01:08:28] Jeffrey Besecker: Yeah, I think there's so much meaning in finding that notion of the happy middle ground. We mentioned the idea of good and bad fat. I feel perhaps sometimes that notion of what fat intake we take becomes simply the level of inherent body fat.

[01:08:46] Is there some fallacy to that? Is that somewhat a misguided notion?

[01:08:50] Marc Nelson: No, that's a good point. So just evolutionary in terms of our evolution, it would, it would, it would make sense that the human body would store amount of fat for lean times when there wasn't enough food. It had to have fuel to actually function off.

[01:09:07] The question is, is where does the human body store that fat? Um, so I actually had this conversation on another podcast and I had the host, uh, telling me that he was likely a type two, and that he just saw that as being, you know, a natural. Evolutionary process where he stored fat on his stomach, especially on his love handles and lower back, because that was just how it naturally happened.

[01:09:33] So my point to that is if that were true, then that means that everyone would likely store fat on that area of their body, including body type ones. But that's simply not true. There are body type ones out there, and we have the evidence up on our website from real, actual people and also celebrities who don't have any fat on those areas of theirs.

[01:09:54] And so the, that leads us to the question of where does the human body naturally store fat? Cause again, it would be no different than you having a savings account and having, you know, backup cash so that in lean times when you don't have income coming in, you have a backup so that you can pay your bills and get through that lean time.

[01:10:14] It's no different with the human body. You've gotta have energy reserves where you're not breaking down muscle. Because if we think about it, in our early days when we were out as hunter-gatherers, muscle was vital. It, it is the armor of the human body. It is how we run fast. It is how we have agility and strength to climb trees, to get away from predators without muscle, without the ability to function with that muscle.

[01:10:40] We were much more susceptible to predators, into dying. So we had to have that muscle, but we also had to have somewhere in our body, Where we were storing fat for those lean times, likely that fat is stored safely around the organs in other internal areas where you really can't see it that readily. We don't really know that well right now in terms of science, and it's something that we are still working on, but that's likely where the average person, especially a body type 1 stores that fat.

[01:11:12] So to the point of, of, uh, a biotech two, three, or four, and people saying, Well, that's just my, my natural genes, and that's where I store fat because it's just. Evolutionary. It's not probably true because the science shows that evolutionary, there really is no benefit to skinny fat. There's no benefit whatsoever to having skinny fat on your body.

[01:11:40] It actually is a, is a detriment because again, uh, when we were hunter-gatherers, you would have to move fast. If there was a lion or a a, a predator that was chasing you, you, you would have to have the ability to move fast. And the more skinny fat that you have on your body, the less that you can't move as fast.

[01:12:02] And we see that in the Olympics and in pro athletes where it's very rare to see a pro athlete who's a biotech two, or even a biotech type three, um, you could say an NFL lineman, uh, in an offensive or defensive lineman, maybe a judo wrestler, but otherwise, A pro athlete, which is less than 1% of the entire population, is a by type one because they have an in an athletic by type that is all muscle.

[01:12:30] Yeah. So evolutionary muscle matters in skinny fat. There really is no evidence that evolutionary there. There is an advantage to skinny fat, which leads to the idea that we have to store fat, but most likely we store internally relative to the average, especially by type one.

[01:12:49] Jeffrey Besecker: I think it's interesting as we look at those notions of sports body types and looking at basketball players, basketball players, you know, utilizing a number of different physical exertion types, a number of different, anaerobic and aerobic activities throughout it. Their duration of a game think gets very interesting to look at their body types and kind of.

[01:13:15] Observe how that level of fitness surfaces and how it seems to be, to me, a little bit more rounded physicality as far as, you know, finding that healthy balance.

[01:13:27] Marc Nelson: So in terms of NBA players, how many people can you name that are a body type two or maybe a body type, three people who have obvious fat on their body, and that's over the years.

[01:13:40] Maybe Charles Barkley, who else?

[01:13:42] Jeffrey Besecker: Shaq might fall a little bit and that even though, you know, Shaq is already a little bit more genetically kinda stretched in his structure, you know, it is height than everything but tends to be a little more leaning toward that. Perhaps

[01:13:54] Marc Nelson: we've got him up on our, our, our celebrity buy type and we have him as buy type too.

[01:14:00] Uh, and so I, I think that you're probably right there, but to the point that I'm making is, is, uh, how many other. Basketball players over the years. Can we, It's a stretch. It's a stretch, right? It really is because there were so very few who were a body type two and I would say that there's, there's no such thing as a body type three professional NBA basketball player and most certainly not a body type four.

[01:14:26] Right? But there's a reason why, because basketball is an extremely strenuous sport. It's a difficult sport. It takes muscle and muscle mass and it takes, even with athletes, cuz there are plenty of NCAA athletes who are all muscle. They have a BI type one, and yet they don't make it to the. Pros because they just don't have the talent or, or the skill.

[01:14:48] So it's not just about body type. Even if you have a body type one and you're an athletic body, you still have to have the, the skill and talent, which is why less than 1% of the entire population is a pro athlete. It's a very rare thing to have the buy type and the skill and, and, and the talent. But I do find it very interesting that there are so very few NBA players who are a body type two.

[01:15:13] And the same would be true with most pro sports. Think about, um, pro soccer. How many fat people do you see playing pro soccer? I can't name a single fat player who plays pro. And the same would probably be the only exception, I guess, would be the nfl, again, with defensive linemen and offensive linemen. But aside from that, and maybe I think tennis, I think that we have Serena Williams up in our celebrity biotypes, and she's a biotype two, but that's simply more like the Kardashians, where it's a sacrum vertebra.

[01:15:48] And uh, and aside from that, Serena Williams is all muscle, . Like she's all muscle, right. And so I, I just, I find it very interesting that we have these correlations to pro athletes in terms of buy type. And there are so very few buy types that are body type two and even fewer that are a body type three. And there's a reason for that.

[01:16:10] And it's because they have all the muscle and muscle mass fully developed and very few of them have any skinny fat. And the few that do, it's very little.

[01:16:19] Jeffrey Besecker: I think it's essential though, we Avoid some of those social comparisons to that kind of elite athlete. You know, they in many ways are a different percentage of the population.

[01:16:32] They are a very extreme angle of that. Does that form a effective correlation or do we find more of of that happy middle ground? I feel that can be parlayed throughout many of the angles, which we compare our lives to that of a professional athlete or a sport in general.

[01:16:52] Marc Nelson: Yeah, and that's again, we, we can bring back that back to the social.

[01:16:57] The social media aspect of things. And that is being held to a, to a standard in terms of, Of the average person. Yeah. That, that they just, they will never meet that standard because they don't have that body type. Uh, and even if they do have that body type, they just don't have the skill or the talent.

[01:17:13] And I'm not knocking the average person. Yeah. I'm simply being honest about we do enough of that .

[01:17:18] Jeffrey Besecker: Right. We stigmatize that very notion of average or mediocre. Very often. That's a whole nother conversation and I'm gonna throw it out there. But that's

[01:17:28] Marc Nelson: it is I, It's just accepting the fact that there are average people in the world and most people are average.

[01:17:35] And that's okay. There's nothing wrong with it.

[01:17:38] Jeffrey Besecker: Everything can be averaged. When we look at the breadth and width of it, there's always gonna be a median. Amen. There's always gonna be that center, that middle, one end of the data, the other end of the data. Eventually, there's a point in between. Right.

[01:17:53] Marc Nelson: And most people fall in between and so, and so.

[01:17:58] I, I, I think that that's one of the things up on, on, especially social media, that if the average person was more aware of how normal it is to be average, to accept your buy simply as what it is, then we, we wouldn't have this health crisis globally in terms of physical, mental, and, and emotional health.

[01:18:21] But unfortunately we do right now because the average person is being held via those stereotypes and those biases to these standards that they will just will never meet. And they don't have the understanding right now that it's. To have an average body type, it's okay to be an average person. Um, and just accept that in who you are.

[01:18:43] Uh, and again, find a diet and exercise and lifestyle that works for you and just accept who you are.

[01:18:50] Jeffrey Besecker: Examining that very idea of mediocrity as acknowledging nothing more than understanding that literally everything we experience has a middle ground. I'm throwing that out there because that's gonna come up later in our programming.

[01:19:08] I wanna thank you. This has been such an insightful shift for me as somebody who's engaged a lifelong path of healthy activity and trying to aspire to healthy, productive eating, Thank you for sharing. This new perspective has shifted my view. Thank you for having me, . It truly has opened. I feel a lot of different doorways for our listening community to reach out and find some meaning for.

[01:19:36] So thank you for sharing

[01:19:37] Marc Nelson: that with us. Thank you for having me. And I, I, I would like to encourage folks to please go to our website@fellowone.com. You can take the scientific buy type quiz. Uh, you can also use the scientific weight loss diary. We are, uh, the point of our diary is not to compete with apps like My Fitness power or Calorie King or the Apple.

[01:20:02] Health app, our weight loss data works in harmony with all that. The idea is, is that once you take the biotech quiz and you understand what your bio, uh, what your scientific bio is, you can use a pen name. There are no images on, excuse me. There are no faces on the, on the images. So you can maintain your privacy, uh, in your security.

[01:20:23] Uh, but once you take the quiz and you understand what your body type is, you can then track all your scientific diet, exercise, and weight loss data, uh, and share it with your friends and family. It's free for them to join and join the conversation. Uh, and you can track all that data and you can watch your progress up on the site.

[01:20:42] If you do the advanced diary, you get access to the, uh, the expert science-based, uh, diet, exercise, and, and lifestyle support team, what we call gnosis. Uh, think of it like Siri or uh, Alexa, excuse me. Um, And yeah, you can basically track all of your scientific data and you can hold yourself accountable while inviting your friends, your family, your dietician, your fitness pro, whoever, so that they can, you know, uh, help encourage you and support your actual journey.

[01:21:14] Uh, but it's all based on science. Um, yeah. So please visit fellow one.com. The final thing that I'll say is, is, uh, there is a book as well. Uh, it tells the story of my journey of how, uh, how I came to the four biotype research. The name of the book is A Bit Risk Gay. It's called Overprivileged White Guy.

[01:21:35] It's my story. And the reason that I named it that was because being born in a body type four was hard enough. I, I couldn't imagine living in this country, not being a, a white dude. Uh, when I, when I, I ventured out into the world, I was shocked at. Things in general. And I couldn't imagine, uh, having a, a double whammy of being born in the biotech four and not being born in a white male body.

[01:22:03] And I don't, I'm not bashing white people. I'm a proud white person. I, I simply recognize that there is an issue, especially nationally with racism and I want to recognize that. And, uh, and I also thought that, you know, it would also be an easy name to remember for folks because it is a bit risky and, uh, it, it would inspire conversation.

[01:22:28] So, yeah, what

[01:22:30] Jeffrey Besecker: a refreshing perspective that truly does serve to inspire that conversation. I wanna thank you for sharing that with us. Thank you. Thank you so much for this today. I'd love to do it again, Mark.

[01:22:42] Marc Nelson: I would. I would too.

[01:22:43] Thank you for, for having me and I, I wish you a wonderful

[01:22:47] Jeffrey Besecker: day.

Marc NelsonProfile Photo

Marc Nelson

Research Scientist

Founded in 2003, the mission of Fellow One Research is accurately acquiring and properly utilizing true knowledge, one of the greatest, if not the greatest challenge we human beings face. Science-based research has grown significantly in the past century, overtaking superstition, blind belief, and ignorant faith. This new scientific perspective and approach takes advantage of real, well-founded scientific facts, evidence, logic, reason, data, and the like to better understand all areas of being human, especially diet, exercise, and lifestyle, which define day-to-day human life.

Truly understanding the human body & health starts with the physical body. The Four Body Types research and Scientific Body Type Quiz investigate the body’s structure and scaffolding (genetics/DNA/genes), including vertebrae (posture) and muscles/muscle mass development relative to skinny fat (cellulite, thin fat, loose skin, saggy skin, crepy skin, normal weight obesity).

This is accomplished using a broad range of relevant science-based variables including fat (being overweight/obese), Body Mass Index (BMI), diet (food and drink), exercise (cardio and resistance), metabolism (basal metabolic rate/BMR), lifestyle (sleep and stress, no less), hormones, and sustainable living (environmental influences like pollution, climate change, etc.) data, to name a few.

Fellow One Research focuses on genuinely understanding all levels — physical (body), mental (mind), emotional (energy in motion), and spiritual (soul) — of human health, particularly unbalances and diseases including obesity (global epidemic) and cancer (cell mutations, worldwide health issue) to better comprehend whole human health data and what it means to really be a healthy, balanced human being.